FYI Congress is scheduled to vote on easing the restrictions on the Lacy act in July- We need to keep the pressure on to make them make the right changes
Dear Politicians,
Please place a moratorium on the seizure of individual guitar
owners guitars as they enter and exit the country or for that
matter anywhere in the US. We understand that there may be some
confusion surrounding what the Lacy Act is intending to do and
what it is doing. But just the thought of this happening is
very alarming. Guitars players are not criminals. The vast
majority of guitars have been made prior to 2008.There is no
reason to confiscate any guitars. There is only a small quantity
of new guitars made post 2008 Lacy Act revisions in relation to
all the guitars in use. Guitar buyers post 2008 had no idea to
think there may be a problem with the wood their guitars were
made from. Virtually all guitar buyers new and used are guitar
players, builders, collectors all realize the need for
conservation. We want to ensure that there is wood
around for future generations. But this is not the answer.
Sign and comment below
I travel the train a lot and usually have my 1996 American Standard Strat with me. I would hate the thought of my baby, leaving my loving arms!
leave my guitar alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The whole idea of taking guitars away from people to “save” the rainforest and help prevent sweatshop labor is borderline insane. The U.S. government should probably be attacking the gigantic pulpmills and construction supply companies that fund these slash and burn ops in poor countries, not Gibson and Fender who are actually attempting to manufacture, or at least craft and assemble their products in America with American labor. This is like taking pennies out of circulation to prevent counterfeiting.
I could not even imagine this a reality. Taking the guitars is not going to fix the problem. I can only speak for myself when I say that guitars are my life and my family. I will protect my family no matter the costs.
You really should set this up on Causes.com or other petition site that will do the work of delivering the petitions to our legislators. Easier to share/forward petitions, as well.
I did not even know that existed. Thanks I will do it
This enforcement is dumb–just hurts American businesses and musicians.
This is as crazy as the confiscation of various woods from Gibson. My understanding is that the confiscated materials have yet to be returned to Gibson. There are numerous large manufacturers in the country that utilize exotic woods in various types of instruments. Why then has Gibson been singled out? It’s political isn’t it. I thought so. This country has enough problems with Debt, Lack of Jobs etc. etc. The lawmakers need to concentrate their efforts on real problems, not where the wood came from that is in a guitar.
Seizing guitars already manufactured is suppose to help in what way?? Don’t punish the musician for something totally out of his/her control! Please don’t enforce the Lacy Act!
This is completely insane and illegal! Leave our guitars alone and kindly MYOB!
Cut the Crap n stop wasting time and our tax money.
its abuse of law and power . some common sense and practicality . need to be excercised here . serious crime out there and they are waisting our tax dollars over this . if there are laws being broke…then they should deal with manufactures on the up and up . mnot pickin on the little guy with the guitar that he spent his hard earned money on . most people arent even aware of this lacy law . again , ABUSE !
This is going to the land of stupid . Take this LAW AND SHOVE IT UP Your NOSE with of the MAGIC DUST these people have been sniffing .
Remember the term jackbooted thugs…? Smh
This is so typical of US politicians, especially in Washington. Extreme knee-jerk reactions to problems. Amazing the amount of ignorance in Congress… passing laws based upon lack of any real-life knowledge.
Where is the petition? I can’t find it
Your on it. Just leave a comment.
The only thing this forum will let me say about this injustice is that I want to stop it from taking any ones instrument .I am mad about it .I want to protect the world’s resources .Don’t burn down the rain forests for profit . But limit this to an intelligent proposal . Don’t make shipping crates etc..
The government can have my guitars when they pry them from my cold dead hands!
…on second thought, screw them I’m taking ‘em with me.
What the hell is happening to our country? Both sides are selfish mindless asses with no regard for the people that elected them or the problems that need to be addressed. And they will never change as long as we allow them to live privileged lives that are above the law. What is their incentive to fix the issues that effect Americans when none of those issues apply to our lawmakers! Our founding fathers never intended for the houses of our government to be a profession. It was supposed to be “public service” and then you went home and went back to work. You want to stop this ridicules crap? 8 year term limits on both houses, no specialized healthcare and NO PENSIONS! Watch how fast this crap will get fixed then!!! And the most important point, they all have to learn to play an instrument ( OK I’m just mess in’ with ya there but it sounded good, huh?)
Think about it people.
Play to Live ,
Live to play!
Seizing any guitars entering or leaving the country without evidence that they are in violation of the Lacy Act is like seizing every automobile to make sure it isn’t smuggling drugs. It’s bad policy and abuses Constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure. Most guitars in existence were made before 2008, and their owners do not carry proof of purchase with them, so how are they supposed to show that they are outside of Lacy Act rules? I support environmental concerns and want to protect rare trees for future generations, but seizing old guitars does not solve that problem.
there needs to be more thought going into this before there is any confiscation of people’s instruments.
at the very least, there should be explicit guidelines set out, so you know not to take the guitars with the targeted wood, or the old tortoise shell pick guard.
just stop, back away, and think about this before you do anything.
Many guitars were made years ago when there were no restrictions to material. Seriously I think you will find more Brazilian rosewood on the floors of politicians homes.
Leave us alone already. This is not the way to protect exoctoic woods.
please use your common sense, and quit making all of us “criminals” with your stupidity
No No No!!!!!!!! … ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!!!
It is NOT the “fault” of the musician if a company that built his instrument used an “illegal” wood. The musician should not be held accountable. Besides, what would be done with the instrument? I have a 1979 Les Paul KALAMAZOO, and I can honestly say it is every bit a part of my heart as my own child is. And just like my own child … you would have to KILL me to get past me. This is atrocious to say the least.
Obviously, the Lacey Act needs a total rewrite and the Feds need to look at (and control) the way this was handled. It was an obomination on their end, to say the least.
We absolutely need to protect endangered woods and uphold OUR laws, not laws of others, so clear methods that make sense, including warnings for violators, need to be formed.
Since Gibson was handled improperly (via thug-ism), I believe they should not be held liable. All seized goods should be returned with a sincere apology. Furthermore, an explanation of precisely WHY they were singled out needs to be given and tracked back to who originally implemented the order and see who they were in contact with prior to both raids.
We need to get to the bottom of that and someone will be going to jail (the nasty kind).
Absolute power, makes little Johnie stupid. Most will not acknowledge that these idiotic laws are natural outcome of letting fundimentalcases attain any power in the political realm.
The Lacey Act needs to scrapped, re-write will still allow politicos ops to abuse power.
How Big ‘a Boy Are Ya?
Don’t suppress the arts. Employ common sense. Hands off our instruments.
Isn’t almost all exotic wood grown on plantations, and grown to be managed sustainably? The problem with bad environmental regulations is that they hurt the economy, and consumer and they don’t effect any change.
Please understand the importance of a balanced response to the concern over use of endangered woods. The answer does NOT lie in seizing instruments that already are in the hands of musicians who make their livelihoods or get great enjoyment from their music.
If in fact the use of these woods is a genuine issue, the place to intervene is at the source, not by targeting the end user, particularly since the enforcement agents likely would not have the skills to discern between a new guitar and an old one that has been lovingly maintained.
I am of the opinion that the Lacey act should be scrapped and the law totally revised.
You mean pry it from my dead cold hands.
??????????? I got wood for ya.
I agree with one of the previous statements. As a guitar buyer, I buy a guitar for its features but it’s not my responsibility to know where the wood came from, just what kind I have. If they want to find out who uses the illegal woods, the factories are the place to look. We as players buy it for its sound and looks and most of the guitars are legal woods or for that matter reclaimed woods from rivers as well.
In a blatantly obvious ploy to target a NON-UNION shop, DoJ should have at least TRIED to make it appear as though this was not their intent. However, when no other guitar manufacturer (who uses the SAME wood from the SAME places) has similar experiences to those experienced by Gibson, AND those other shops hire UNION labor, it’s not difficult to see the big picture. Leave Gibson to the thing they do best; building guitars.
This is stupid. They should start looking at the docks where all goods first enter the country. Get some dogs to sniff the wood. They trained them to sniff for bombs and dope, I’m sure they can train them to sniff wood. Going after US manufactures, and the consumer with the product is insane. (but what do you expect from the dummies running this country. (since 2008)
To the politicians:
Get off your butts & do something for this country. Confiscating musical instruments is not why you were elected. How about lack of jobs, insurance, food, clothing, residence? You should be ashamed of yourselves.
This is BS! Is this all they have to do with our Tax Money. Try improving the Education of our country’s children, Creating Jobs, Investing in New Energy Solution’s.
You’re Not getting my Guitar Period!!
VOTE VOTE VOTE these A$$holes out!
How about using the money you are wasting taking people’s guitars and use it to plant more of these endangered species. Then there won’t be endangered species. Then we can fire all of you for lack of work.
facisism american style–god has a place for guitar theives, and lucifer is scared sh****less of it.
Leave my guitars alone and fix what’s wrong with our government, i.e. health care, social security, “the war on terror”, medicare, unfair and unequal tax laws, hell, I could go on for hours about things that are more important than “where’d that wood in that geetar come from, boy?”. This is government at it’s MOST absurd.
Guitar’s should be left alone, as well as all other musical equipment.
where’s the petition to sign i see nothing
You are on it. Just leave a comment. We need to keep the pressure until the Feds vote on this issue in July.
see the link below.
http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wire/e2-wire/229545-house-to-vote-on-easing-environmental-regulations-after-gibson-guitar-raid
first you want to take my guns, now my guitars? what’s next, my firstborn? my cars? my house? this is soooo not right
The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, along with requiring any warrant to be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause.
Sounds like a violation of the 4th Amendment.
Brian Kelly
Leave me and my guitars alone
IT WILL BE A COLD DAY IN HELL BEFORE YOU TAKE ANY OF MY GUITARS!!!
You’ll get my guitar when you pry it from my cold dead hands!
I’ve been to Madagascar and watched them burning the rain forest. Taking my ’60s Gretsch is not going to help.
This is a ridiculous waste of tax dollars.
You will never take our guitars!!!! They are peoples life, living, and there is no way people are going to give that up! You have lost your minds!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greetings, The Constitution of the United States of America specificly bans the government from engaging in unreasonable search and siezure of persons and property without due process and overwhelming evidence that the person has engaged in a crime. The difference between a guitar and any other piece of property is that the instrument takes on a personality unlike the mere components of metal, plastic, wood and resin. To separate a musician from the instrument is tantamount to kidnapping for the instrument is a part of a duo wherein injecting another guitar into the process of making music is like saying your spouse is just a member of this sex or that and your spouse could be replaced by any member of such gender.
As a touring musician the thought of my guitars being seized is only overshadowed by the idea that I would not be able to use them at shows. Please consider that this dampens potential revenue for U.S. Citizens and thus the GNP.
The Lacy Act is bureacratic over-regulation. True conservationists have already documented that most exotic woods are far from ‘endangered’. For that matter, even the perceived rarity of any organic commodity promotes the creation of jobs and entrepreneureal expansion. I encourage Congress to not only relax the restrictions of the Lacy Act but to recind it, altogether.
The government has it’s hands in enough of our business/personal lives. Leave our guitars alone.
We warned people of this kind of behavior by the government in the 60′s. Big brother is here, now. No one but yourself can be trusted with your rights or your property. My guitars are my children. They are not in my DNA, they are my DNA. That being said, what ch-ya gonna do(?) sign a petition. Best of luck with that. No one is minding the store. Remember that the Government perpetuates itself to keep itself employed. If there isn’t anything wrong they will make somthing up just to keep their kushy jobs. Better to vote anyone out of office who had anything to do with any of this and give fair warning to anyone replacing them that they only have at best 4 years to correct the problems in this (or any other country) or their going to replaced and so on until someone gets it right. Of course, we all know, anyone smart enough to fix these problems is also smart enough to stay out of government.Thus my favorite saying “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions”.
I think a closer look at the country of origin is in order. It wouldn’t surprise me if countries knowingly let certain companies/individuals export their “rare” woods then clammer to the US that we are raping their resources in an attempt to extract money from the Worlds Most Powerful Social Worker – The USA. Remember, when one finger points forward, three point back.
get real…..you toucha my guitar …I breaka you face.
This shows that there are enough of the legislators in office
who have nothing better to do than interfere with our American way of life. Cut the crap and do something useful,
like balance the budget… and not on the backs of hard working Americans!!!!
As someone living within spitting distance of Canada this has catastrophey written all over it.
No Kidding. Some one emailed me and said that they read the Lacy act and said that leaving the country might not be a problem but coming in will be. I just think it will go both ways. What about other countries that have similar import/export restrictions
Congress should stay out of guitar manufacturing as guitar manufacturing should keep out of congress. REVISE THE LACY ACT FOR MORE BUILDING OF GREAT GUITARS!!
Do they have a tool for dating the manufacturing date? If not, they shouldn’t come near my collection!
Leave musicians and their tools of trade alone. Enough is enough and things have been taken much too far. Life is meant to be enjoyed and music is like art a gift to be enjoyed.
This won’t happen to an individual. The idea that some sunglass wearing suits will show up in SUV’s and take your ax is a joke. They raided the Gibson factory in 08 ant took “ebony” a fairly rare wood. The wood was catagorized wrong IE: 152= iron, 159= wood, etc (anyone in shipping and recv’g knows what I mean. Also, If you never filled out your warranty card or purchased 2nd hand guitars do NOT have EID location devices
& if you’d like more GO2 youtube copy paste this in the search “Gibson Guitar Corp. Responds to Federal Raid!” Just like a car or any other item You have purchased it, it is yours. WHAT is REALLY going on (I’m TOLD)is the chinese replicas from ali babba / trade tang sites are being confiscated as they arrive, after you have paid for it! IF I AM WRONG (would not be the 1st time) MEMORIZE these words. “I SOLD THAT GUITAR”. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45rv-BVz-ko
Funny- you say it won’t happen but it happened to Gibson. Hell they came in with guns ans vests. I don’t see a black car driving up to your house but there are too many grey areas in the moving of exotic woods across borders. What about all the other Nut-Job Countries out there? The Famous George Gruhn stopped selling to the export market because of this exact problem. And he only would sell one at a time. There is a article on this site with his quote. He estimates it has cost him $2mill.
Mike Admin
I have done a lot of import and export, not of guitars, but I have had product seized for inspection by customs several times and they sit on it for days weeks and months.
The other issue is the product cleared customs. to me that means it has cleared and Gibson should have to worry about enforcement coming after the fact. It also cleared customs in India or where ever.
If you are a import/exporter Homeland security comes to visit you. just to see you are real. How much should a builder have to go through to build a guitar. This is ridiculous. Anyone who ships know what a pain it is. It does inhibit business. it would be easier for Gibson to outsource it. And that will be the result. So this bill needs to re-evaluated
ps. HANG ON TO YOUR GIBBY if she has an EBONY fretboard. ALSO they have only used “ebony” on their finest guitars for about 20 years if THAT! So If you are buying into this conspiracy Do not “fret”. You have nothing to worry about. Here is what will happen. Gibson will have to have these guitars built, made, farmed out to china. SO in the near future I will bet like Fender being made in Mexico. The same thing will happen, even if its JUST the neck. = cheaper guitars! If you would like to email me and correct these posts feel free bajorektom@yahoo.com don’t go by my last link above do your homework!!!!
I have others here comment that it could happen on inbound customs. But as there become more regulation it will happen. There is no way for customs to know when you bought the guitar or if it has any illegal wood. I have talked to some of the big MFG about using this site as a central data file so customs could have a separate login to view only details of the guitar. Not the owner. The build details should be free moving from owner to owner without regard to who that owner is. But off course they do not want players to go anywhere but their site. I don’t know what they expect people who have guitar from all over the place. I don’t see anybody seem them doing anything that is for the individual owner. A few MFG reps have told me this issue for the individual has been on their radar for many years. So it will happen. Jeff The Skunk Baxter spoke about this exact issue recently. If you look through past posts you can find it.
Mike Admin
It is a guitar not cocaine. Leave them alone. Go catch a bad guy like Holder or Obama.
This is profoundly idiotic. No, that is unfair to idiots. This makes about as much sense as putting all the white people whose ancestors had slaves in jail to discourage slavery. I love the “This is like taking pennies out of circulation to prevent counterfeiting” simile. This is what happens when well intentioned legislation is processed through a bureaucracy. You get something no sane individual would ever do, but somehow a government is capable of doing. And I worked for duh guvmint and thought I had a really high tolerance for idiocy, but this impresses even a FAB (Frustrated Angry Bitter) old fart like me. Legalized theft of vintage musical instruments. Truly impressive.
there are many more things important in the world, starvation, rouge governments, war, economic unfairness…our government officials who make a living by our hard work and representation are not acting in the best interest of the american people nor the economies of the rest of the world…i suggest these meddlers who choose to condemn united states owned businesses to stop taking whats givin you by our democratic system…karma does happen and dont be surprised if your choice of backing whatever law backfires….you should really get an economics lesson and open your eyes….if the united states can help economies anywhere in the world and you choose to listen to rouge governments who condemn their own citizens you are a part of the problem…grow the hell up.
This is just another example of the government making an example out of law abiding citizens. This is a very loose and grossly twisted interpretation of legal government power, and should be stopped. And who in congress is even qualified to vote on this? What knowledge do any of these people have of this kind of thing, and if any, how many? Probably not near enough to warrant any action on the subject, their decision will only be uneducated and rushed, and most likely very misguided by personal ethics and agendas…NEITHER OF WHICH ARE THE LAW!
We don’t make them, we just play them! Go after the manufacturers. They are the ones choosing the woods with which to make their guitars, not us.
The Obama administration has chosen to selectively apply the Lacy Act by raiding the Gibson Guitar Co., Republican supporter, and ignoring the C.F. Martin Co., a Democrat donor. This is the act of a thug and a lawless dictator, not the President of the United States. If we don’t get ‘change’ in November, we have no ‘hope.’
Amen to Don MacMurry’s post.
The day any filthy politician lays their crappy hands on my guitars, Hell will have frozen over. Government needs to focus on turning this country around instead of focusing on trivial matters such as confiscating guitars because of the wood they are made out of. My guitars are my best friends and no government butthole is EVER gonna touch them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Now where is that petition?